Going by the rumour mill, he has been sacked. The SFA will make an announcement in due coarse. It is not the answer.....not unless you also sack the 11 useless peices of **** that were trying to convince us they were actually football players on Wednesday. So now that Berti is sacked. What is the expert views of all the Part Time managers out there. Who is your starting eleven?
Remember you are not allowed to experiment.
Friendlies are important and you cannot try out new formations
Your loyal support suffer from Englandshire-ism. (They think they were once a good nation that won lots.....)
You must give the youngsters a start and then fall on the sword when it is proved beyond doubt our youngsters are actually crap!!
Convince me we have a good crop of youngsters and remember that playing well in the SPL does not count!! Our league is one of the worst leagues in Europe and that is a reflection of the players that play in it. Our domestic teams are an embarrasment in Europe yet we expect our International team to be better.........think about it. We are rubbish and no manager will do better.
i agree with what you are saying graig but, those players are far better than they were last night. you cant tell me that they can not pass the ball 10 meters to another player. they had no formation or organisation at all.
the argument that they "gave everything" is crap. i could give everything, that does not make me a Scottish international.
i think thomson only started because of the slating berti got on saturday for not bringing him on earlier. during the second half against norway he brough on millar before him. this indicates to me that he would rate millar higher than thompson.thompson was rubbish on saturday. then he starts with thompson on wednesday.
i do not think berti is the man. that team needs to play to its strengths and that is to be a solid team that is hard to break down. there are no leaders in the team. i.e Hendry, Kean or souness. it was like watching a game in the park on wednesday. long ball after long ball.
if he is away. i have to say i am glad. who will be better?........... i do not know. but, we cant get any worse than wednesday night.
__________________
i turned and said.."there is only one team is going to win this game Shug.....BANG Italy went 2-1 ahead.
quote: Originally posted by: WebMaster "Our domestic teams are an embarrasment in Europe "
Celtic in the Champions League group stage, Hearts and Rangers in the UEFA Cup group stages, not particularly an embarrassment. Personally, I think we have the players to at least compete with Norway and their ilk. Our strikers are not the best but show that they can put the ball in the net ocassionally in league football. How many chances have we created in the last four or five internationals? I really do believe that a tactically astute manager could do better with what is available.
As an aside, can I point out that, correct me if I'm wrong, only Holland and Italy have beaten Moldova over there in the past two years. As an individual result, not the disaster the papers would have you believe, but possibly the straw that broke the camels back in terms of World Cup qualification and Berti's job.
__________________
Barry George is an innocent man Sean Hodgson is an innocent man
quote: Originally posted by: Severed Heed " Celtic in the Champions League group stage, Hearts and Rangers in the UEFA Cup group stages, not particularly an embarrassment......."
Mmmmmm. Yes Rangers are in the UEFA Cup. But reason they are is because of their embarrassing performance in the CL Qualifiers and we will not mention the way they managed to scrape by Maritimo on penalties to get into the UEFA Cup? Celtic, although quite strong a few years back will be out of their depth in the CL. Hearts do not profess to be one of Europes big guns, but either way they are on mission impossible in their section. Both Hearts and Rangers may go through but this will be down to the fact that the top 3 teams go through and no other reason.
Berti's competitive record is Won 5, Lost 4, Drew 4. For a second rate football nation I don't think we should expect anything else. Maybe a couple of draws could have been victories but as I said, we are second rate and will never be thought of as a major force. Another manager may play different tactics but whether our players are adaptable enough or flexible enough is another matter. We simply do not have any decent quality footballers. We may well be forgiving for thinking that our youngsters who are doing well week in week out in the SPL have a good future, but as soon as they are bleed in the Premiership (McFadden, Miller, Fletcher etc.....) they are not good enough to hold a first team place. We are living in the past when we reminise of our National sides of yesteryear. But the gulf between the average teams and bad teams back then was bigger than it is now. We would easily beat the lesser teams back then not because we were good, but because they were ****e. Those lesser teams have now evolved and it is now we that are playing catch-up and at most we may catch-up and join them in the lesser division. At worst we will be left behind.
quote: Originally posted by: WebMaster " Mmmmmm. Yes Rangers are in the UEFA Cup. But reason they are is because of their embarrassing performance in the CL Qualifiers."
I don't regard being eliminated by CSKA Moscow an embarrassment. This is a team who previously have reached the second group phase and who currently have beaten Paris St. Germain and drawn away to Porto in their group. I would give Maritimo a little credit as well, they are sitting second in the Portugese league at the moment. Can I suggest your view of Rangers is akin to the perception you feel others have of Scotland? They are in the same pauper guest house as Scotland I would suggest when compared to the big European competitors.
I feel we have the players to be a better team than one who can only muster victories over Iceland, Faroes and Lithuania. I feel our Alamo victory over Holland will be Bertie's zenith.
I also believe in a thing called love, just listen to the rhythm of your heart..............
__________________
Barry George is an innocent man Sean Hodgson is an innocent man
quote: Originally posted by: GNASHER " i think thomson only started because of the slating berti got on saturday for not bringing him on earlier. "
I actually agree with Bertie on this one. We needed a target man for this game and I think he was adequate, he did score the goal after all...............
__________________
Barry George is an innocent man Sean Hodgson is an innocent man
quote: Originally posted by: Severed Heed " .......Can I suggest your view of Rangers is akin to the perception you feel others have of Scotland? They are in the same pauper guest house as Scotland I would suggest when compared to the big European competitors. ......."
I am in no way having a dig at Rangers or Celtic or Hearts. They are our representitives in Europe and I genuinely hope they all do well. But You hit it on the head regarding being in the same pauper house as Scotland. Our national side can only be a reflection of our domestic game. In the past when we had a relatavely decent national side: 1967, 1970's likewise our domestic teams held their own in Europe. Now that our domestic teams slip down the rankings so does our national side. Sacking Berti will not improve our national side. Only improving our domestic scene will have any major improvement. Gordon Strachan etc... can only pee with the penis they have and unfortunatley our penis is very small and embarrasing when shown to the rest of the world.
Whats that old saying? I think Confucious said " you can only pee with the c*ck you got" and thats what Berti has been doing, its a pity that our team is not as good as teams of yore...wait a minute, teams of yore? Okay, we had Bremner Dalgleish, Law, Baxter, cooper, Greig, Souness, Ford, Jimmy Johnston, Derek Johnston, Stanton, Miller, Holton, half the leeds team, half the liverpool team, half the every other team in England,and many others over the years, c'mon you know them, just add your own names to the list of great Scottish footballers, right then, we have our dream team sorted out, and what did Scotland ever win? Hehaw!okay we might have beaten Cyprus or Israel, or even Englandshire on occasions, but we never actually set the world alight did we? Remember, we have never been a great international footballing nation, so why now does everybody look back to the good old days when we were still crap? Discuss please.
__________________
A case of beer has 24 cans, a day has 24 hours. Coincidence? I dont think so!
quote: Originally posted by: The Vice Captain "Whats that old saying? I think Confucious said " you can only pee with the c*ck you got" and thats what Berti has been doing, its a pity that our team is not as good as teams of yore...wait a minute, teams of yore? Okay, we had Bremner Dalgleish, Law, Baxter, cooper, Greig, Souness, Ford, Jimmy Johnston, Derek Johnston, Stanton, Miller, Holton, half the leeds team, half the liverpool team, half the every other team in England,and many others over the years, c'mon you know them, just add your own names to the list of great Scottish footballers, right then, we have our dream team sorted out, and what did Scotland ever win? Hehaw!okay we might have beaten Cyprus or Israel, or even Englandshire on occasions, but we never actually set the world alight did we? Remember, we have never been a great international footballing nation, so why now does everybody look back to the good old days when we were still crap? Discuss please."
Aye but in those old days you were perrenial qualifiers weren't you? 74, 78, 82, 86, 90 and 98. Now you can't see Scotland even coming close - so theres no doubt Scottish fans can look back to the "days of yore" and say; "aye, we were better then."
The main question is - in the 70s through to 90s were you punching above your weight competing at an unsustainable level? Or in the 70s-90s were you competing at your "natural level" and the bad patch your going through now simply a blip?
What sort of things can you do to change the grassroots of Scottish football? Didn't the govt ban football in schools? Should that ban be lifted? Also how could breaking the Old Firm oligopoly change things? Should the SFA try to develop Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc? Would the Old Firm leaving Scotland help things out?
Bertie has a terrible job to do - poor footballers in a country that has a footballing pedigree that is such that they expect relative success. Scottish supporters aren't like English supporters in their expectations. England fans want to win the world cup, play class football, humiliate lesser teams etc. Scottish fans just want to go to the party. Qualification lets the Tartan Army get ****ed and enjoy themselves. So your not spoilt b*stards demanding unattainable success (like us) - but you do, quite rightly, demand Scottish football to be equal to the likes of Norway, Croatia, Ireland, Denmark and Portugal - but, to be fair, your light years behind these teams.
Scottish fans just wanna get to the party, the English want to be the most attractive/most fashionable there.
I don't think its Berties fault because Scotland are **** on paper and on grass. If you had some good players and you were still not getting results then he'd have to go. But - the players aren't there - so what genius manager is going to get you to a World Cup/European Championships?
quote: Originally posted by: The Vice Captain ".......Remember, we have never been a great international footballing nation, so why now does everybody look back to the good old days when we were still crap? ........"
I never said we ever had a great international team, decent was the word I used. The main difference back than was that we felt we were competing on a basis of expectation. There is no doubt that our depth was far greater and so was our class of player. We played games with a mentality that seems alien now. The playing field was more level due to the resourses of players we had. Look at our present resources:
Craig Gordon. Without a doubt a very good and PROMISING goalkeeper. Unfortunately, he is still far away from the finished article, and if we persevere to throw him into the lions den with a 5hite defence in front of him, the kid is going to have a nervous breakdown before he reaches the age 16. My point is how young do we go? Surely our resourses are not that bad? Any younger than Craig Gordon and the manager will be writing letters to their teachers. Dear Miss Could you please excuse Craig Gordon's absense from school on Wednesday as he was in Moldova. Yours Berti Vogts
We fielded a guy who plays for phucking Wigan????? Who the phuck are Wigan FC? 80% of the rest of the squad kept on looking over at the bench, not because they were scared of being substituted, but because that is where they are normally seated every Saturday with their respective teams. McFadden, Fletcher, Thompson etc.......they are all phucking bench warmers.
Ouch I'm fed up with the pish that we watch week in week out and now also at International level. The whole Scottish game is phucked and there aint nothing that can be done to save it......but let's ignore the facts and blame Berti. It is that wee germans fault so it is.
quote: Originally posted by: Severed Heed "Honestly believe even Walter Smith could get a better performance from the dross we have and take us up at least a dozen places in the rankings. As an aside, anyone else notice how the papers, after universally calling for Berties head, are now following the same line as Webmaster?"
Only difference is that I have never shouted for Berti's head.
I don't think Berti could coach the TSTA to victory in The Mid Calder Gala Day Dominoes Trophy....mind you neither has anyone else in the last 14 years!
Following the embarrasing draw in Moldova during last week the following statement has been released :-
"Due to this latest embarrasing performance against one of the worst teams in Europe, we felt we had no option but to terminate the contract of our manager"
M.F.A. ( Moldovan Football Association )
__________________
i turned and said.."there is only one team is going to win this game Shug.....BANG Italy went 2-1 ahead.
quote: 1 Originally posted by: Severed Heed " Celtic in the Champions League group stage, Hearts and Rangers in the UEFA Cup group stages, not particularly an embarrassment......"
quote: 2 Originally posted by: Severed Heed " I don't regard being eliminated by CSKA Moscow an embarrassment. This is a team who previously have reached the second group phase and who currently have beaten Paris St. Germain and drawn away to Porto in their group. I would give Maritimo a little credit as well, they are sitting second in the Portugese league at the moment......."
I thought I would dig this thread out now that we have indeed proved that we are crap at both international level and also an EMBARASSMENT in Europe at domestic level. Domestic leauge teams being crap (embarassing) = International team being crap (embarassing). I wish Berti was here...at least we could blame the laughable European performances on him too?? Please don't give me "Went to last game........so close........but the teams we came up against were European legends back in 1932....bla....bla.....bla"
Whilst not saying the Scottish teams are world beaters, I would still argue:
1. Celtic played against two teams we would all agree were class - Milan and Barcelona. I would suggest that the other, Shakatak, were a very good team as well. No disgrace, no matter what the press say, in falling behind ALL these teams.
2. Rangers. As I said elsewhere, Alkmaar are flying in Holland, better than Ajax and Feyenoord. Auxerre are a decent enough outfit, top 3 in France. I thought at the beginning Rangers would finish third. A lucky result in France for GAK and a carve up in Austria denied them this.
3. Hearts. OK they're pish.
__________________
Barry George is an innocent man Sean Hodgson is an innocent man
